In this episode, I talk with soprano Maya Kherani about her experience of pregnancy during a pandemic, her struggles with reflux and vocal injury, her spreadsheet where she tracks her practicing exercises, and how she leans into her Indian-American identity.
You can follow Maya's career at mayakherani.com and see adorable baby photos @mayakherani !
CORRECTION: Reena Esmail's piece that Maya references is called My Sister's Voice, not My Sister's Keeper.
Follow us @thisembodiedvoice to hear about new episodes and tell us who you want to hear next on the podcast.
In this episode, I talk with soprano Maya Kherani about her experience of pregnancy during a pandemic, her struggles with reflux and vocal injury, her spreadsheet where she tracks her practicing exercises, and how she leans into her Indian-American identity.
You can follow Maya's career at mayakherani.com and see adorable baby photos @mayakherani !
CORRECTION: Reena Esmail's piece that Maya references is called My Sister's Voice, not My Sister's Keeper.
Follow us @thisembodiedvoice to hear about new episodes and tell us who you want to hear next on the podcast.
Suzanne Lis 0:49
Welcome to This Embodied Voice. My name is Suzanne Lis and today I'm speaking with soprano Maya Kherani. That's her singing Purcell's "Music for a While" at the Valley of the Moon Music Festival last year. I spoke to her in the last month of her pregnancy about what it's like to be pregnant during a pandemic, her experiences with vocal injury and reflux, and what it means to be South Asian and working in the field of Western classical music today.
Alright, so welcome to the podcast, Maya.
Maya Kherani 1:18
Thanks for having me.
So I thought we would start with a very obvious question of how you're feeling since you're pregnant. And tell us when you're due.
Yeah, I am due March 31. So it's coming up pretty quickly, which I'm very excited about, because I definitely want - I'm having a baby girl. So I want her out. Because it's been a bit of a rough pregnancy. And, you know, I've been I've been singing through it, but it's just a lot of discomfort and pain, especially when I practice a lot right now. So it's a little bit of an annoyance, but baby's doing well, and we're excited for her arrival, which is imminent.
I should say that we're recording this in mid-February. So you've got six more weeks to go. This is truly the final stretch, it seems.
Yeah,exactly.
Suzanne Lis 2:14
So you said there's been some, like some discomfort and some pain. Were there things that you were expecting or things you were not expecting?
Maya Kherani 2:23
Ah, I'd say both. My first trimester was pretty difficult. I was just very, very nauseous. And just sort of found it difficult to, like my energy was really, really low. And I was pretty much nauseous the entire day. They say morning sickness, but it's really all day. And then my mom had really bad nausea with both me and my brother. So I was kind of expecting that. And that, that let up around 13 or 14 weeks, thank goodness. And I recorded an opera production. Right about 15/16 weeks, I was like at this sweet spot in my pregnancy, which was great because I actually felt okay. And then the last, I'd say the last trimester has been hard. So you know, I'm in the last six weeks now. And the previous about a month, a month and a half has been difficult because I have a very short torso - like I am just really short waisted, and there's just not enough room in there for her. So breathing has become more difficult, especially with singing, I'm getting very good at my back breathing, which I suppose is good for my technique anyway. But yeah, it's just been a lot of pain like around the ribs. And I have actually a nerve, pinch or not pinch but compression of the nerves sort of right under my, my ribs and near my sternum. And there's not a lot I can do about that because it's a nerve pain. So there's nothing that I can take that will get rid of it. I'm doing I continued my yoga practice, which I shifted to like a prenatal pack practice now, which helps. And I take a lot of Epsom salt baths, which also help but you know, I think the only thing that's really gonna bring me relief is for her to be out. So yeah, it's been it's been really, really challenging. And it's interesting because I feel like there's not a lot of dialogue about the sacrifices on the on a woman's body during pregnancy. You know, the stereotypical thing is that, you know, people post the news and it's like, great, it's wonderful. When people say, you know, oh, you're glowing, or Oh, you look so beautiful or blah, blah, blah. And it's, it kind of, it's a little enraging because it's like, No, I'm not glowing, I'm definitely exhausted beyond belief. And, like, I have eight different pains that are happening right now. And I get I get the, I get the motivation. And I think it's really sweet of people to be like, supportive and encouraging. But it's also sometimes I feel sort of diminishes the sacrifice that women go through, especially those of us who use our bodies as our jobs like, you know, being a singer as an athlete. So it there's a lot of a lot of sacrifice. But of course, I mean, that's all to say that I'm super excited about having the baby and my husband and I are thrilled, and we're really looking forward to it. So I'm very happy that we're having the baby, but it is, it's been a lot of a lot of sacrifice.
So obviously, support is like really important for women during her pregnancy, whether it be family or a partner, or healthcare resources. And I was wondering, how if at all, have you felt supported by arts institutions during your pregnancy?
I am super lucky. And extremely grateful right now to be supported by Opera San Jose, who I'm employed by right now, as a Resident Artist. First of all, being employed like during a pandemic, I am so thankful for that. And I know it's a huge privilege to be in this position. And they've been really great about the pregnancy. So I've, I started my contract started in August, you know, and my pregnancy started in July. So I've been pregnant for the whole contract. But they've been really receptive to what I need. And what I feel comfortable doing, both in terms of safety with COVID protocols. For example, like, whenever there's a rehearsal, or a string of coachings, in the rehearsal room, we all get tested every week, and we also isolate, and there's a set of protocols that we have to adhere to. But in addition to that, I'm always the first one in the room. So I'm never having to sing after somebody else, just because you're the pregnant one. So that's something that, you know, they wanted to make sure that I was comfortable with, which is, you know, they don't have to do that, which I really appreciate. Also, I, my contract is still going on, and I'm involved with the company. But you know, I'm taking time off for when the baby comes. And my contract is still going on, like I'm taking some unpaid time. But it's, it's they've just been so supportive about when I want to come back when I want to come back to singing, doing the concerts and engagements that I can do when I feel comfortable when I feel recovered. So that's huge. I don't I don't really know of many opera companies that would do that. And I you know, I have to say that it's, it's a woman led organization. And I think they've been really, really supportive of the pregnancy, and of me taking care of myself. And as I like to work I like to sing so they're letting me take the lead. And I've still been singing I've still been recording. So it's been really, really nice to have that and to be occupied during the pregnancy as well. And I feel like my voice feels great. Like I've been singing the same repertoire. I haven't really changed any of the repertoire that I've been singing. I kind of liken it to training for a marathon in altitude. Because I still sing a lot of my repertoire has a lot of coloratura in it not high coloratura but like fast moving notes. And so you know, certain Handel arias or Mozart arias that have huge long coloratura passages, like I'm trading that right now while being pregnant and get having like half of my lung capacity. But I feel like once I deliver, it's gonna everything's gonna feel easy.
Suzanne Lis 9:24
Yeah, kind of a little spinny stream of air. It's all you need.
Maya Kherani 9:27
Yes, exactly. No, so it's like making me a better singer. Having to sift through the pregnancy as well. The only thing is that sometimes when I'm singing for a long period of time and I'm using so much lower body expansion I don't think the little women there it gets very comfortable and so she starts kicking a lot and sometimes Yeah, sometimes that makes my my like rib area kind of sore because she's her legs are like right up here. And yeah I remember I was like I was coaching marina zarya last week at right before the high note right before the high sea I just get a big whack just like I had to stop in the middle of the coach and be like okay I gotta catch my breath so it's pretty funny and it's pretty like unique experience
Suzanne Lis 10:17
So surreal.
Maya Kherani 10:19
Isn't that crazy? It's just - I wonder what it sounds like in there. But I've been singing throughout the entire pregnancy and so I asked my my OB, I said, you know, do I need to be careful like after I deliver? Do I need to like not sing around her, like is she going to be startled? And my OB said you know, you've been singing around her the whole pregnancy, she's probably used to it, she's probably going to be lulled by it, you know. So that's kind of - it's just a crazy thing to think about that she's like experiencing the voice in such a different way. And it's funny because like, I know eight sopranos right now that are pregnant or have recently given birth in the last like eight weeks and it's crazy because it's kind of like, it takes a pandemic to feel like, oh I can take this time for myself, I can take - I can take time now to be pregnant and not so.. it's a little bit messed up if you think about it. Because I know in my mind I was thinking like, I'm not traveling now, I was supposed to be in Amsterdam all year and you know, that dried up so I was like well I guess I'm not traveling so like, perfect timing! We were wanting to have kids anyway but it's a little bit - a little messed up that like it kind of it takes a global pandemic for us to for us female singers to think, okay I can now take this time to have a child.
Suzanne Lis 11:44
What has it been like being pregnant during a pandemic? Because on the one hand I could see it being kind of nice like, oh you know, just kind of cuddle at home with the husband and enjoy the special time, prepare the house, whatever, but I could also see it potentially being isolating.
Maya Kherani 11:58
Yeah, I think it's both. I'm thankful to not be traveling so much and to have a lighter schedule, but in some ways maybe that distraction would have been nice because you know, we're just at home all the time, so it's like - it's just constantly all I'm doing is being pregnant. So yeah, I think it's both, and we have definitely used the time to like nest and set up the nursery and all that stuff, which is really lovely and a privilege. But you know, I'm alone at every doctor's appointment I've been to, my husband can't even come, you know. My parents, hopefully they'll get vaccinated before - they would really, you know when they want to come see the baby, when in a couple months after her birth, hopefully they'll be able to come but we're not sure yet. So it is isolating and it's a strange time to be pregnant and we're thinking about like, okay, how long do we need to be at the hospital? Can I get vaccinated before? What are the risks? I've been super careful with isolating because it is more dangerous for a pregnant woman to get COVID so that's been a source of anxiety too. So I think it's both things: it's been in some ways a lot harder but then in other ways I am able to rest more and I'm able to do more self-care as it were because there's really nowhere else to go.
Suzanne Lis 13:39
I know that you're in kind of a specific situation now with your pregnancy but I was wondering if you could maybe like sum up your vocal technique journey or like what 's something that's always been hard for you.
Maya Kherani 13:51
Yeah, um, I went through a pretty significant change in my approach to vocal technique last year, now about a year and a half ago when I started with a new teacher and I had been - I know we've chatted about this before in our like personal lives but I'd been having some vocal problems in that I was suffering from really severe reflux. I would sing a rehearsal and then the next day not have a voice. It was so unpredictable and also that just made me so anxious mentally because I just didn't know what was going to come out of my mouth the next day, if I was going to have the note, if I was going to be able to sing that audition and it was so stressful, that probably made the reflux worse. So it was like this positive feedback loop where just kind of everything just sort of fed into each other and I really struggled with that for years I was put on a bunch of drugs from you know an ENT who diagnosed me with reflux years ago and I, you know, I tried all these, I tried the the PPIs, I tried H2 blockers, all that stuff, and it never got better. And I really think it made me worse in a lot of ways.
And so I finally decided that like, this just wasn't sustainable. And I just didn't know what was going on. And I switched teachers. And we really kind of got to the root cause of the reflux, which was that I was really over pressurizing my voice. And using a support technique that was not helpful for me. My lower body was really rigid, and I would compress the air, especially on onset. And I'd make a pretty sound - like I was still getting work, I was still sounding like myself, but I was just, I wasn't using very efficient vocal technique. And so I was sort of overblowing the voice and at the same time, in order to not have my cords sort of blow out, I have to compress my cords so that they would regulate the air pressure that way and then that that just caused fatigue at my vocal cords, and it made my reflux a lot worse because I was constantly compressing my lower body. And so for about eight months with this teacher I worked through, really realigning my support, and thinking much more about the outward leaning appoggio
And I've got to say, within a year, my reflux disappeared. I am off, like all of the drugs, I haven't, you know, I eat a healthful diet, because it makes me feel good. But now I don't have to be worried about certain trigger foods. And if I'm traveling for an audition, like, Oh, I gotta find a, I gotta find somewhere where I can get food that doesn't have X, Y, and Z ingredients in it, because who knows that might trigger an episode, and I won't be able to sing my audition tomorrow. So I don't have to worry about that anymore, I don't really have to warm up very much anymore. So that's a combination of singing the right repertoire. Now, that fits my voice, and really realigning my support, so that I'm not over pressurizing the voice. And I realized that the over pressurization of the airflow also caused my tongue to really retract to sort of try and control that airflow, right, because if there's too much air flowing through, then I sort of use my tongue as a cork to try to control it, right. And then that just tightened everything up in my throat as well. So it's just problems layered up on problems. I think a lot of times we get ourselves into like these compensatory behaviors, where you know, something's a little off, and then we use something else to fix them, we do something else to fix it, and it you get these layers of, of inefficiencies, you know, so I kind of had to break everything down, and start from the ground up again. And I feel like my voice is much more aligned and free now. And because of that, I think that like my true voice is out now. You know, I feel like this is this is the color of my voice. This is the weight of my voice like, this is what my real voice sounds like without these manipulations. And so now, finding the repertoire that fits my true voice feels really, really good. You know, and it feels like I can sing for a long time.
So it's, it's been a journey. And so this has been like the last two years, I've been really been working on this. And I feel like in a really good place right now. I have to say that going through that struggle, has made me appreciate the work so much more. And has made me a better singer. No doubt. There are plenty of natural singers who just like everything lines up, and it's great and they can just go. But you know, I I've really had to work. And I know that you know, I'm sure that you feel the same way. But like I've really had to work at it. It wasn't something that was natural to me, but I because of that I feel really secure and like confident in my technique. So if I need to travel and sing or if I'm a little sick and I need to sing, or you know, I've got a huge number of back-to-back rehearsal days. I know that I can trust my technique enough now to to have the confidence to say okay, yeah, I can do that. Or no, that's too much for me, because I sort of I'm so like, clued into what my voice can do and what it wants to do.
My teacher says that technique is not for the audience. It's for the singer and I truly believe that. Like your audience is not going to know if you have perfect technique. And in fact, I don't sound. I mean, I do sound different than I did before. But I don't sound - I still sound like myself. But the big difference is that the technique that I have now serves me as a singer helps me to trust my voice, helps me to sing for longer sing for more days in a row, that kind of thing.
Well, and I really appreciate that you were so like, open about your issues with the reflux, and with your vocal issues a few years ago, because I also before that I'd had some vocal issues, I did have problems with reflux, and I was actually inspired by you to like, really figure them out and deal with them. Because it also sort of felt like it had come to a head, it was like, I don't really know if I can keep going this way. How was it for you to kind of be so open about those issues on social media, when I feel like a lot of people don't talk about, like vocal injury, or very unglamorous things like reflux?
I'm, that makes me so happy that at least I feel like the opening up, like helped you on your journey as well. It's, it's crazy, to me that vocal injury is so stigmatized, because every athlete probably ever has gone through some sort of injury in their lives in their careers, like, we use our voices in a really athletic way. It makes sense that injuries are going to happen and I think by stigmatizing them, we don't do anyone any favors, especially young singers. So I just felt like, you know, what, if someone's not going to hire me, because of this journey that I went through, then whatever, like, I don't want to work with them. Anyway, I truly feel, as I said before, like, going through this struggle, going through the journey, going through the healing process has made me a better singer, and a better interpreters. So if they don't see that, like, that's not my problem, I guess.
Um, you know, and there's so much like, there's so much mystery and mysticism, sort of surrounding vocalism and singing, that I didn't find very helpful to me. Because, you know, it's, it's a set of muscles that work in concert. And it's a lot of, you know, anatomy and how you sort of balance muscle activation, really, in a more most efficient way. So talking about the voices, like, Oh, it's like this disembodied thing, it's this gift that you can't control. And that just felt very disempowering to me. So reframing it as, okay, these are the set of muscles that I need to train in, and work in a way that's most efficient. Rather than, oh, my voice is broken, or I'm broken, because I can no longer sing. And I think a lot of singers tie their identities to their voices. And I'm guilty of this too, right? Because it's so personal. It's part of our bodies, but I think being open about my vocal struggles and injuries, or injury, has helped me to cope with it sort of being able to put that struggle outside of my identity. So that I can address the issue and I can heal without thinking that I'm broken, or that I can no longer be a singer, or, you know, my, my self worth is somehow diminished. So that's been helpful for me. And I'm glad it's been helpful for other people as well.
Could you would you be okay with like talking a little bit more about your vocal injury?
Sure. Yeah. So it was a reflux related vocal injury. And I just had such bad heartburn. So I had like all those stereotypical heartburn symptoms, and I had a lot of LPR symptoms, which were Laryngopharyngeal reflux, I don't know silent reflux, something like that, where I'd have morning hoarseness and throat clearing and stuff like that. And when I got scoped, they found a very small like pre-nodule on one of my chords. And it was really, really, really scary. And this was a while ago now. And it felt like I couldn't do anything about it. And I was recommended to do voice therapy and I did that and I did speech therapy and all of that.
But the root of the problem was still there, which was the fact that I was really over fatiguing my chords on like a daily basis. And I didn't know that I was. And on top of that, like the technique was creating an environment for reflux. Because I was just sort of pushing on everything so hard that I was really feeling the heartburn. And then on top of that, I'd have to really push on my cords to make the sound that I wanted. And it was this vicious cycle. So when I, when I got scoped and I, that ENT found that like pre nodule, I thought, Oh my gosh, like, I really, I've got to do something about this. And I even considered like, not singing anymore, because I just couldn't handle the anxiety. It just wasn't fun anymore, because I just felt like, my voice was no longer in my control. And I couldn't depend on my instrument.
And I had a really sort of traumatic experience when I was a young artist at Central City over the summer, and I was chosen as one of the few young artists to do a recital. And the night before the recital, I had my big dress rehearsal. And plus, we were, you know, really worked hard as young artists, I was in like, five productions at once, and it was six days a week. But the night before my recital, I had a big dress rehearsal, I think through all my repertoire, I felt great. I woke up the morning of my recital, and was worse, like, just couldn't sing at all. And that was the first time that I, I felt like, why am I doing this? You know, why? Why is this my career like, this is so stressful. I just felt like, there was so much pressure. This was a while ago. So I was, you know, it wasn't really as like, secure in my, in my abilities and my identity. I felt like there was a lot of pressure, and I just, I thought, okay, maybe I should just like give up singing because I can't, I can't predict what's going to happen with my voice. So that was a big wake up call for me, I ended up making it through that recital, and it was fine. But I then had to like rest for days after that. It was just not ideal, not fun for me to sing. Probably not fun for the audience. Because I was so stressed. But I think going through that injury, though, like was, was was really difficult mentally.
And, and now like, I'm totally healed now, like, my chords look great. And they're fine. Which is also heartening, because you can heal from these things. So if you are struggling with an injury, you can, you're not like permanently broken like there are a lot of most of the time, like you can recover, you can heal, there is treatment that works. So that's just to like, give hope to anyone who is listening. But it was scary. And I think that especially because nobody talks about it. Nobody brings it up, I really felt like I was alone. You know, and my teacher tried to help me, but it feels very out of your hands. You know, I remember thinking, how are these singers with these huge careers? Like, how are they traveling every day and singing a new concert singing these huge roles? Like how is that even possible? I just didn't understand, like how that could work at all. Because my experience was like, I could only do these certain things. And I had to have all these rest days and I had to be so careful with what I ate and I had to be, you know, all this stuff. And I didn't really realize that, you know, it was my technique that was really holding me back. And I know that people don't - I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna try to technique shame anyone, like everyone has their own journey.
Suzanne Lis 29:06
No. And I so appreciate that. Because I really it's like, important to me with this podcast that it's not about technique shaming, or you know, there are so many reasons you could have a vocal injury.
Maya Kherani 29:16
Exactly. In my particular case, that happened to stem from my techni que, but there's so many reasons you can have an injury. And I think not talking about it is not a way to help anyone, right. But that was my journey. Because it was related to my technique. Honestly, it was a little bit harder to wrap my head around because I felt like I had a lot of feedback from people saying that, oh, you sing so well. And, you know, your voice is so lined up and there was a lot of conflicting information I was getting so I thought oh, it can't be my technique. You know, and I was in a little bit of a denial about it, personally. Because technique also feels super personal, you know, it feels like if your technique is criticized then it hurts, of course it hurts, right? Like, it hurts personally. So it took me a while to come to terms with like, Okay, you know what I can, I can be more efficient with my technique and therefore, like help. This helped to heal this injury that I've suffered. And just I wanted to move forward and progress. And it took a while. It took like a year of really diligent work, and I'm thankful that it worked for me, I know that it maybe not, would not work for everyone. But it worked for me and I'm really, really thankful for that because I had the right teacher and I was doing the right work. But, it was hard mentally, you know?
Suzanne Lis 31:00
Yeah. It seems like you’re also - you're like - you're a doer. Like you get things done. And you've used this word several times, like, it took a year of really hard work, really diligent practicing. And I was wondering if you could talk about...yeah, like how you practice.
Maya Kherani 31:17
Sure. Yes, I, I definitely err on the side of doing too much rather than doing too little. Probably because I'm a control freak. And I think a lot of us singers are, you know, especially...especially sopranos. But I was just very regimented in my practice. So it doesn't work for everyone. But like, I literally have a spreadsheet of like, the different like technical goals I have, you know, kind of like, here are, here are my you know, thin edge exercises, just my bucket of tongue exercises. Here's, you know, if I want to work on my messa di voce or my coloratura or, yeah, so like I have, I have like bucketed exercises into these categories that I want to work on. And I pick a few every day, or a one or two, or maybe if I'm singing certain repertoire, and I'll pick something that applies to that. Anyway, so I'm pretty regimented that way, which I know might not work for everyone.
Suzanne Lis 32:23
So that you can see, like how often you've been doing some particular exercises, so you're not falling into a rut of doing always the same ones?
Maya Kherani 32:31
Yeah, or falling into the rut of just like singing my repertoire, like just doing a few lip trills and feeling like oh, I'm warmed up, you know, and then just singing through all my arias.
Suzanne Lis 32:40
Yeah, it's like that meme of the guy like stepping over all the stairs, if you've seen that one. Yeah, it goes over, you know, scales with trills. thin edge, then it just goes straight to like, practice my high B flat 20 times in a row!
Maya Kherani 32:57
Yeah. And it kind of keeps like long term goals, in my view. So for a long time, like my lower passaggio just wasn't feeling comfortable and would be very, like unreliable. And so I had this like whole series of exercises that I would, I was doing to sort of target that. And it's not fun. It's not fun practicing in my lower passaggio. But there's so much of my repertoire that requires me to be comfortable and confident there. So it was just a reminder to be like, remember, this is a goal area for you. And it's going to take you six or 12 months to get where you want to go. But it kind of takes that daily or, you know, a few times a week practice in that, in that area that is not fun. You know, everyone wants to practice their high notes and practice the fun flashy stuff, right? I mean, I certainly do so. So it just kind of kept me in line.
Suzanne Lis 34:00
I wanted to ask you about the yoga practice. So I'm a yoga teacher here in Berlin, and to be clear, I teach asana, I teach like the physical pose aspect of yoga. For those of you who don't know, you know, listening, yoga is actually this like, eight limbed philosophy, and there's breathwork. But there's also just general approaches to life. So I've been thinking for the past few years a lot about like, what it means to be a white person teaching this ancient Indian kind of system of life. And I was wondering, in what context you first started practicing yoga. Was it something growing up in your family that was done? Or did you experience it later in more of a Western package?
Maya Kherani 34:42
Oh, interesting question. So my uncle in India, I still have a lot of family in India. My uncle has been like a practicing Yogi for decades, like really hardcore, very traditional yoga practice. And so that was my first exposure to it. And he's, you know, he's been practicing for maybe 50 4050 years or so. Um, and then my first exposure to doing my own practice was in high school. My I grew up Hindu. My family is Hindu. And I, we had like a Sunday school thing with our local Hindu society. I grew up in Texas. And as part of our Sunday school, we did yoga so as up you know, in like, in Sanskrit, with the Sanskrit and we had our one of our teachers was, you know, one of the moms but she was also like a yoga teacher, but it was much more of the philosophical strain of yoga. We did a lot of like, you know, talking about the the mental side of things that breathwork and then we'd also do the Asana, yoga as well. So that was my first exposure to it. And then, you know, I'm no longer religious, but I did really enjoy the physical aspect of it, and the mindfulness aspect of it. So then I started taking like yoga classes in a much more Western setting, you know, like the local yoga studio or doing videos online. And my, my husband and I did it together and we would, we would just watch like the yoga DVDs at the time. I don't even think there was YouTube. There wasn't like there was a YouTube it was YouTube existed, but it wasn't like, you know, now you can find all yoga. Yeah. And so it became like, the more westernized practice. And I that's kind of what I've stuck to now. Although, the foundations for me were more in the philosophical and the more of Vedic text connection, having to do with identifying as a as Hindu, then. But it's interesting. You know, I think some people think it's appropriation, but I don't I think it's, uh, I think personally, I think that Yoga is universal, and it has universal benefit. And if more people are interested in learning about it and practicing it, like, that's, to me, that's the point. It's not meant to be this exclusive practice that only applies to, you know, people of the subcontinent. So I welcome it. I know some people feel differently, but I think it's meant to be an open practice.
Suzanne Lis 37:39
I also read online that you studied Carnatic music?
Maya Kherani 37:45
Yeah. Does Indian classical music. Yeah, I did when I was a kid for a few years. And I also studied Indian classical dance, which is Bharata natyam, which has a lot of like theatrical aspects to it. Yeah. And that did influence me as a child like appreciating the arts. The carnatic music is such a different vocal style.
I am no expert because I have not studied carnatic music in a very long time. I was a child, I did it for a few years, and I was also taking voice lessons at the same time, like Western voice lessons. So I can only speak to my limited experience, but to me, so it's not the Quranic style of singing is improv is a story. It's an oral tradition, like meaning that it's not really written in any way. And it's, it's based on a series of what a variety ragas which is what we call like, basically modes, you know, so like, you have different scales. And so a lot of the trading is mastering the scales and being able to improvise on any composition. And the vocal production is like a higher larynx position. And it's not using as much like resonant space of the head, so you get that slightly different. tambor can sound a little nasal or can sound. It just, it's a different, like, acoustical effect. And it's generally you perform with a mic. So it's not, it's not something that you could do really without amplification unless you're in a small space. So it was so technically different for me. And I was doing both things at once that like, my little brain couldn't handle it. So I picked I picked I like singing Western music better and so I just I picked that. But it's really cool. I'm actually doing a piece right now that I'm recording with the Berkeley Symphony. In a couple of weeks. That is written by Reena Esmail, who's an up-and-coming composer in LA. She's like, Yeah, she is amazing.
Suzanne Lis 40:00
So hot right now, as they say.
Maya Kherani 40:02
She's so hot right now she's, she's like a wonderful person, too. She's really sweet. And the pieces written for the version we're doing is a quintet and add piano and Carnatic vocal Hindustani vocalist Carnatic and in this study are very similar. carnatic music is South Indian, Indian classical and Hindu Sunday is North Indian. They're very similar, though, in terms of technique and style. So, it's written for a Hindustani vocalist and a soprano, a Western, you know, operatic soprano. So I'm thinking the soprano role, and I'm working with Saili Oak, who's a Hindustani vocalist extraordinaire.
Suzanne Lis 40:43
I've also worked with Saili in a similar sort of you. And I, well, first of all, she's like the nicest person but she's also like when she opens her mouth it is. It's just like the most amazing timbre of her sound that comes out. She's great.
Maya Kherani 41:00
Yeah, and maybe, maybe you know the piece. It's My Sister's Keeper. [CORRECTION: It's actually called My Sister's Voice.] I think they did it at SongFest a few years ago. It's such a cool piece. And it really does combine it. There's like an overlay of yeah, two styles, and it works exceptionally well. And there's sort of, there's like, parts, there's one movement where we sort of switch back and forth singing the same note. And, you know, she does her improvisatory thing on it. And then I have written in the soprano role was kind of part like, the actual, I don't have to improvise, thank goodness, but it's like, you know, the, the, the ornamentation is written in. But I do it in, in my style of singing, Western style of singing. And it's just so cool to hear like, the same notes, the same figures, but in the two different vocal techniques juxtaposed like that. It's fascinating it it's such a cool thing.
Suzanne Lis 41:55
Yeah. How connected do you still feel to India? Like you have in your bio "Indian-American soprano"...
Maya Kherani 42:04
I mean, I'm pretty connected to it like I have, I still have family there. My dad's side of the family still lives there. I haven't been back in a few years. But yeah, culturally, you know, that's what I, I grew up. My parents are immigrants, both from South India. My husband is Indian, but he his, his family is Muslim. And they immigrated via East Africa through Canada. So we've slightly different background, but you know, still both identify with like South Asian culture and tradition. And yeah, I speak thummell, which is South Indian language. poorly, I speak it poorly, I can understand it. But I yeah, I mean, I think that really has influenced my, like, it's still a big part of my identity. So I have been involved in a lot of projects that sort of combined east and west, or bringing projects that may not feel like they apply to those communities, but in a way that is more accessible. So you know, for a lot of people like just seeing like an Indian American singing something. They think, oh, like, Oh, I didn't think I would relate to this. But like, I relate, you know, the three December's that I did was cool, because we were all three different the three characters in the opera, but we were all three different ethnicities. So Susan Graham, singing Maddie, which is amazing. She's incredible. And then Efrain Solis was our baritone who was Mexican American. And were a family, which I think is so cool, because I think it takes like, out of the box thinking and a lot of people who saw the show thought that we really came across as a family. And it didn't matter that we look totally different from each other or had different backgrounds. And so in that way, I think, you know, singing and music and Opera can really be universal. So that's like, part of my artistic mission is to bring opera to non Western audiences. And so that's, that's part of the reason that I sort of lean into that identity like in my bio and stuff like that, because that's that's what I feel like I can I can do to serve the audience in a way.
Suzanne Lis 44:28
Mm hmm. Well, and I think I thought it would mention also that you also have started a little like online community called South Asians in Western Classical Music. Yeah,
Maya Kherani 44:38
This was, um, we just started this a couple of weeks ago is a friend of mine, vj, Chela, Sahni and I, and he's a Baroque violist, and faculty at Colorado's state university or I can't remember where in Colorado. And we went to San Francisco Conservatory together. And we were like, the only two brown people there. And but we were chatting, and he was wondering, you know, we were chatting about how like how few other South Asians we know, in Western Classical Music. And so we decided to start this Facebook group, and we thought, like, maybe 10, or 20 of our friends would join, and that would be it. We're like, at 225 members over the last - this only started two weeks ago. And we've just been - the outpouring of support has been huge. And people, you know, joining the group is and saying things like, I never knew this, that there were so many people, I thought like...there was a conductor who who put a post up who said, You know, I didn't know that there were other South Asian conductors. And I thought this career wasn't for me, but like, seeing the number of people in this group and the people who are actually making careers and doing this professionally, like that is so inspiring. And like, that's the reason we started the group, because it can feel very isolating. Yeah, and so it's just, it's blown us away with how much support and activity it's gotten and I hope it inspires people to to bring their own voice to you know classical music which can be very monolithic.
Suzanne Lis 46:15
Alright my dear, I think that's all on my end. Thank you so so much for doing this and taking the time.
Maya Kherani 46:21
Absolutely, this was so much fun.
Suzanne Lis 46:24
And thank you for also just being such a great example of like the diversity, the being open about your vocal injuries, your reflux struggles, your pregnancy struggles, all of it. I just, I love your way of being and I just wish there were more people like you so..
Maya Kherani 47:39
Aw thank you well I hope that I can help somebody else not have to struggle the way that I did, or at least know that your struggle is like, you know, worth it and will - for me anyway, has made me a better artist, a more whole artist, so yeah there's nothing wrong with struggle.
Suzanne Lis 47:00
Mmhmm. And I think the cool thing also is that like - the voice and the body, they are so different from like day-to-day, hour-to-hour, like we could do this interview in a year and it'll be totally different, so..
Maya Kherani 47:13
Exactly.
Suzanne Lis 47:13
So if you're down, we can meet up again in a year and maybe in-person, who knows?
Maya Kherani 47:18
Yeah, that'd be amazing, yeah.
Suzanne Lis 47:21
Yeah, well I wish you the best, for the rest of your pregnancy also.
Maya Kherani 47:26
Thank you.
Suzanne Lis 47:27
Take care.
Maya Kherani 47:28
Okay, bye!
Suzanne Lis 47 :28
Bye!
And I'm really happy to report that since our interview Maya gave birth to a beautiful little baby girl and we are wishing both of them the very best. And thank you to you for listening to this very first episode of This Embodied Voice! So this is a podcast where we talk about the voice, the body, and everything in between, and if you enjoyed the episode, then please rate, review, subscribe, and tell a friend. You can also reach me, Suzanne on Instagram @thisembodiedvoice. Until next time, take care of your body, take care of your voice, and be well.
Transcribed with otter.ai